Tailgater discussion.
Before the big game...Damion and I (and Jessica Hyman's mom, Pat) were discusing the following verse and concepts surrounding the verse, what do you think?
Eph 2.6
"...[He] made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, ..."
Note that this is speaking of those who have received God's grace through Christ and that it is in past tense. "Seated us with Him in the heavenely places."
So are our spirits already in heaven?
Where is heaven?
What is Paul's point?
Cory & Cade
About Me
- Cory
- Eugene, OR
- I own GANT Construction. I am a General Contractor who is currently doing home remodels and repairs. I am hoping to begin building energy efficient homes in 2009.
I am a certified Aging-In-Place Specialist (CAPS) who would like to be building new Universal Designed (UD) energy efficient rental homes. However, financing has become a problem in our current economic environment, especially to the small business person.
More importantly ... I have an amazing family - a beautiful wife and three awesome boys.
My interests include all things outdoors (cycling, hiking, backpacking, etc.) as well as Bible study, preaching/teaching, history, stock trading, listening to music, photography, native plant landscaping, basketball, architecture, and traveling with my wife.
We also enjoy going for drives and sampling restaurants, especially Mexican restaurants and locally owned diners, cafes, or burger joints.
2 comments:
To say that our spirits are already in heaven is a bold statement that most Bible commentators aren’t willing to go that far. However, it is clear that Paul is stating we are new creations and our connection with Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, reigning from heaven is clear. We were dead, we were buried, and we have been raised up. Raised from the dead and according to Eph 2.6 raised even higher then our old life, but to true life, alive spiritually. We are aware of, or even spiritually in, heaven? That is hard to understand. What does that mean for us to be physically on earth but spiritually in heaven? Are our physical and spiritual bodies severed and separate?
You might say that heaven is spiritual and therefore could be all around us, however, the Bible also teaches that there will be “new heavens and new earth.” So does that differentiate from the current heaven all around us? That is still an odd thought to me. When Jesus ascended He went up, He did not simply dissipate into the air around the Apostles. I would think this is significant; it was His last statement to them.
What does it do for me to have my spirit currently in heaven?
What point is Paul making?
Is it similar to Romans 6, where we have been forgiven, we have been united with Christ, and therefore we are to consider ourselves dead to sin? It is put back on us. It is our task to continue to work on living that way. We repent once, but we must continually repent whenever we come across sin in our life. In Ephesians he states it in a different way, more positive maybe, instead of talking of death he states we are united with Christ and He is on the throne in heaven.
Is it more of a visual metaphor or a physical/spiritual reality?
Below is the passage (NASB) and some commentary on the verses.
Ehp 2. 4But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
6and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
7so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
“We were buried with him through baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life (Romans 6:4).
Having been buried with him in baptism, wherein ye were also raised with him, through faith in the working of God who raised him from the dead ... you, I say, did he make alive together with him (Colossians 2:12,13).
The full meaning of this verse is that Christians who have been baptized into Christ, therein being "made alive together with Christ" and being "raised up with him," are partakers of the full rights and privileges of the heavenly kingdom. People have removed baptism from their own theology, but they have not removed it from that of Paul.” Coffman Commentaries on the Old and New Testament (www.studylight.org)
“It is an entirely new position that we are placed in, according to this new creation of God-a new character that we are invested with according to the pre-determination of God. The works are pre-determined also according to the character which we put on by this new creation. All is absolutely according to the mind of God Himself. It is not duty according to the old creation.[See Footnote #11]
All is the fruit of God's own thoughts in the new creation The law disappears with regard to us even as to its works; together with the nature to which it applied. Man obedient to the law was man as he ought to be according to the first Adam; the man in Christ must walk according to the heavenly life of the second Adam, and walk worthy of Him as the Head of a new creation, being raised up with Him, and being the fruit of the new creation-worthy of Him who has formed him for this very thing (2 Cor. 5:5).” John Darby's Synopsis of the New Testament (www.studylight.org)
“4-7. Having shown that both Jews and Gentiles were spiritually dead, Paul now declares the spiritual resurrection of the saints. This lifting up from death to a new life is due to God, rich in mercy, and on account of the great love wherewith he loved us. The next verse affirms the fact. 5. Hath quickened us together with Christ. As he quickened Christ and raised him, so when we were dead in sins he gave us spiritual life by the gospel and lifted us to a new life. "We were planted in the likeness of his death and resurrection" (Rom. 6:5). By grace ye are saved. Not by works of the law, as he has shown so fully in the Galatian letter. 6. And hath raised us up together. Buried into the death of Christ, we are risen with Christ (Col. 2:12). We are risen as new creatures to walk with the Risen Christ, with our minds on heavenly things (Col. 3:1). To sit in heavenly places. In our present state, to have our minds above (Col. 3:2). 7. That in the ages to come. In all coming time. The exceeding riches of his grace. In saving, purifying and blessing his children.” People's New Testament.( www.studylight.org)
“We who were buried are raised up, Ephesians 2:6. What remains yet to be done is here spoken of as though it were already past, though indeed we are raised up in virtue of our union with him whom God hath raised from the dead. When he raised Christ from the dead, he did in effect raise up all believers together with him, he being their common head; and when he placed him at his right hand in heavenly places, he advanced and glorified them in and with him, their raised and exalted head and forerunner.--And made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus. This may be understood in another sense. Sinners roll themselves in the dust; sanctified souls sit in heavenly places, are raised above the world; the world is as nothing to them, compared with what it has been, and compared with what the other world is. Saints are not only Christ's freemen, but they are assessors with him; by the assistance of his grace they have ascended with him above this world to converse with another, and they live in the constant expectation of it. They are not only servants to the best of masters in the best work, but they are exalted to reign with him; they sit upon the throne with Christ, as he has sat down with his Father on his throne?” Matthew Henry Complete Commentary on the Whole Bible (www.studylight.org)
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